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tv   BBC News at Five  BBC News  December 19, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm GMT

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eve, closely watching christmas eve, christmas day and boxing day for some nasty weather, but it is too early to give you an awful lot of detail. that's it. today at 5pm: rail and postal workers insist their industrial action isjustified in the run—up to christmas. post office workers are protesting against pension changes, job security and potential closures. the very future of the high street. as is under threat. we know the government and the company are lining up to make further announcements in january to close and franchise more of our high street. and there's been further disruption on southern rail, as rmt members stage another 48—hour strike about staffing levels. we'll have the latest from the conciliation service — as talks continue on the ba dispute. the other main stories on bbc news at 5pm: evacuations was in aleppo, some 50
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children trapped in an orphanage are taken to children trapped in an orphanage are ta ken to safety, children trapped in an orphanage are taken to safety, some in critical condition. and seven—year—old bana al—abed — whose messages about life in aleppo gained a worldwide following — is also rescued. translation: we have managed to escape the destruction because our house was reduced to rubble. in northern ireland — a vote of no confidence in the first minister because of her role in a controversial energy scheme. theresa may says she told leaders at last week's summit that she wanted a smooth and orderly brexit. in ankara — the russian ambassador to turkey has been in ankara — the russian ambassador to turkey has been shot and killed. the gunman is still at large. and a scintilating triple century for india — as england struggle in the fifth test in chennai. it's 5pm.
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our main story is the series of strikes — involving thousands of workers — taking place in the run—up to christmas, affecting rail and postal services. the post office says a third of its large high—street branches are closed — because of a strike by staff protesting againstjob cuts and changes to their pensions. there's also been further disruption on southern rail — as rmt members stage another 48—hour strike about staffing levels on trains. talks have been taking place at the conciliation service, acas, to try to stop ba cabin crew walking out over christmas in a dispute about pay. downing street said unions were showing a ‘shared contempt‘ for people trying to go about their daily lives. our business correspondent john moylan has the latest. postal workers brought a special delivery for the government today.
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outside the department for business, mail bags containing 70,000 postcards from the public, backing a campaign to fight closures of flagship post offices. we are defending postal services across the uk, the very future of high street post offices is under threat. we know the government and the company are lining up to make further announcements in january to close and franchise more of our high street post offices. the timing of the day's strike is designed to put maximum pressure on the post office. this week is by far its busiest for handling parcels and letters, and christmas cheer would appear to be in short supply elsewhere as well, with a number of strikes. planes and trains are also at the heart of this christmas of discontent. southern rail passengers face more disruption as 400 conductors walk—out today and tomorrow. airline travellers will also face
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double trouble this week, as baggage handlers for swiss port are set to strike this friday and saturday. this will mainly affect regional airports. and talks got underway this morning to try and head off a strike over pay involving thousands of british airways cabin crew. but why is it all happening now? the reality is that management is not listening to them, they need to do something that shows they are serious about the issues that matter to them. the post office claims it is business as usual, while dozens of city centre sites are closed, the post office insists its modernisation plans will go ahead. what we can't do of course is change a strategy which is about improving post office services for customers in an increasingly competitive marketplace, with changing lifestyles. the post office needs to change and is changing.
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some say that union laws should be tightened to prevent this disruption. the government says it keeps these issues under review. our correspondent daniel boettcher is outside the conciliation service acas in central london where talks are taking place to try to resolve the row at british airways. what has been said they are today? here, nothing at all. we do not know at the moment what the progress, if any which has been made here at the talks, but there has been a war of words through statements issued to the media. ba employs about 16,000 cabin crew and what this dispute is about is a group of those who are on what is known as mixed fleet contracts, they fly both short—haul and long haul routes, these people who have joined since 2010. british
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airways have said in a statement today that it is planning to run a full schedule on christmas day and boxing day despite the proposed action. it says the company has been working on detailed contingency plans and alex cruise, the ceo and chairman says he is making sure this attempt to ruin christmas for thousands of customers fails. we urge unite to abandon this strike which is serving only to cause anxiety amongst our mixed fleet cabin crew colleagues. the company says people on these contracts are getting a competitive salary package with all crew working full time getting a minimum of £21,000 a year with pay allowances, incentives and bonuses. but the unite union which has just overturned a half thousand members in this group says in its own statement that it is misleading, that new entrants are paid a basic
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of £12,192 per year. it also says the airline and unite had agreed to an embargo on comments as the talks continue and len mccluskey says it is deeply disappointing that british airways has put out misleading commentary to the media and broken and agreed embargo on comments while negotiations are ongoing. he describes the ba stands as aggressive. at the moment we don't know if there will be a conclusion to these talks here this evening, but tomorrow is separate from that unite will be back here in separate talks, a dispute involving swiss port, unite has 1500 members who work as baggage handlers, checking crew, cargo crew at 18 different airports and this is a separate dispute about long—running pay disputes. thank very much daniel powell the update at acas.
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there has been a shooting incident in ankara in the past hour or so, the latest we have is that the russian state news agency is quoting an unnamed source is that the ambassador, the russian ambassador to turkey, andrei karlov has died following the gun attack we have been reporting in the past half hour. we are getting reports that the gunman, the word that they are using is neutralised. a lot of responses, the united states saying it condemns the attack and that you said to have died of his gunshot wounds after being attacked at an art gallery in the turkish capital. we condemn the act of violence, whatever its source because of course we have at no point what this source might be.
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lets cross over to istanbul and get the latest from our correspondent, selin girit. we know that witnesses at the scene say that the gunman initially shot the ambassador from the back and then told everyone else in the photography exhibition hall to leave the building and he shot the ambassador ‘s several times again and afterwards he shouted out, liverpool and revenge. those two words. —— aleppo and revenge. those two words and that sentence that he reportedly uttered suggested that his motive was related to the russian government involvement in the war in syria and especially the situation in aleppo. there have been various protests in turkey in the
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last several weeks regarding the situation in ana usabiaga balerdi, in front of russian consulate buildings and embassy buildings. but we do not know the nationality or exact other reports circulating in turkish media say he has been heavily wounded and taken to hospital. the interior minister is at the scene and has been investigating himself, there has been a police operation and the gunman has reportedly been killed. to underline, stay with us at second, i am looking at the latest news coming, one suggesting that russian state radio suggests that russian state radio suggests that unnamed sources are saying that the ambassador was indeed killed in this attack then going on to say that a man wearing a suit and tie in
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the exhibition according to this report, and fired at least eight shots. can you say anything about the operation still going on in the area and the extent of the security response at this point? the operation was held immediately after the incident and it was actually a very quick and swift operation from what we understand. it was held swiftly a nd what we understand. it was held swiftly and the gunman was neutralised. he was killed. initially there were conflicting reports about the whereabouts of the ambassador as well, some suggesting he was still inside the building, some suggesting he was taken to hospital but from what we understand at the moment, the official report suggests that he is at the hospital, heavily wounded but after you have said there are other reports suggesting he has been killed. there
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have been photographs circulating in turkish media showing the exact moment of the assassination attempt. in one particular photograph it shows the ambassador himself lying on the ground having been shot and by his side gunman stands wearing a black suit and tie, holding a gun in his hand. there are several other people lying on the ground. as i previously said, the incident took place as the gunman first shot the ambassadorfrom place as the gunman first shot the ambassador from the back and then told everyone else to get out and then shot the ambassador ‘s several times again. so what we know at the moment for sure is that he is heavily injured. thank you very much, to underline what you were saying, there are no official confirmation is of this news as you we re confirmation is of this news as you were pointing out but even the russian state media sources, although they are not specifying where they are getting their
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information from, they are saying quite confidently in the past few minutes that they believe that the russian ambassador to turkey, andrei ka rlov has russian ambassador to turkey, andrei karlov has died of gunshot wounds after being shot in an art gallery in ankara. they stress there is no official confirmation but that is the information they have. if we get any more on that or a response from moscow to what is going on, any further response, we will bring it to you right away. and it was mentioned earlier, the events in syria and how they have affected public opinion in turkey. thousands of syrians have left a rebel area of eastern aleppo — after the evacuation programme resumed last night. they include nearly 50 sick and injured children who'd been trapped in an orphanage. it's expected that a plan to allow international observers into syria will be approved by the un security council this afternoon. a seven—year old girl — bana al—abed — who gained international attention after she took to social media to describe her life in the city is also among thousands more
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who have been able to leave. but tens of thousands are still trapped — as richard galpin reports. many in east aleppo, including children, waited outside yesterday in freezing conditions. hoping the buses would take them away from the hellish conditions of this, the remnants of the rebel stronghold. but it was only in the early hours of this morning that finally the evacuations resumed. after a new deal was struck between the warring factions. for these families, huge relief. medicine and food now available. amongst them was this seven year old girl, bana al abed, whose plight has been followed by hundreds of thousands around the world.
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helped by her family, she wrote a series of tweets, begging for a ceasefire and describing the incessant bombing around her home. she feared they would all be killed. we endured endless bombardment in aleppo. we have managed to escape the destruction because our house was reduced to rubble. i would like to say thank you to all those who have been asking about our news. also able to escape today was this group of 47 orphans who had been trapped by the fighting, some critically injured. they too had used the internet to make a last—ditch appeal for help. this video going viral. translation: please allow us to evacuate aleppo. we wish to leave so we can eat and drink. we love peace. but it is notjust the people of east aleppo being taken to safety today.
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these buses are carrying hundreds of villagers who have been surrounded by rebel fighters in the nearby province of idlib. allowing these people to escape was a key part of the agreement reached at the weekend. and now at the united nations security council in new york and other potentially important step forward. a unanimous vote for a resolution calling for a un observers to be called in east aleppo to monitor the evacuations. right now it's an important step that i think a couple of days ago people would not have thought the russian federation would have allowed go through the council but until it is implemented itsjust allowed go through the council but until it is implemented its just a piece of paper. one concern is if the syrian government will let monitors into east aleppo especially
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as it claims all rebel fighters will have already left. i would like to share with you that right now the la st share with you that right now the last terrorists in some districts of the eastern part of aleppo are evacuating their stronghold. and aleppo this evening will be clean. but thousands of civilians are still waiting to be evacuated. and if the un monitors can be deployed quickly they could help guarantee their safety as they move through government checkpoints on their way out of the conflict zone. theresa may has been updating mps on last week's european union summit — where she was excluded from part of the meeting — while the other 27 leaders discussed the eu's future after brexit. the prime minister said she'd reassured other the member states that britain was committed to a ‘smooth and orderly exit‘ from the eu. our chief political correspondent vicki young
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is at the house of commons. what was said in these exchanges today? theresa may updating mps, she said a lot of the summit was not about brexit, a lot was about migration and syria, that these were important issues discussed and she played down any suggestions she was being ostracised or excluded. she said it was quite right that other eu countries were able to get together for what ended up eu countries were able to get togetherfor what ended up being half an hour over dinner to discuss their approach to brexit. we are in a position where people are still interpreting that decision, the referendum vote, about what kind of brexit people are wanting. theresa may has made it clear, she says at least pa rt may has made it clear, she says at least part of the vote was about the desire to control immigration and she told mps she was determined to stick to her timetable, to trigger the start of talks by the end of march. at the council i also
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reaffirmed my commitment to a smooth and orderly exit and then the spirit i made it clear to the other eu leaders that it remains my objective that we give reassurance early on in the negotiations to eu citizens living in the uk and uk citizens living in the uk and uk citizens living in the uk and uk citizens living in eu countries that their right to stay where they have made their homes will be protected by our withdrawal. this is an issue i would like to agree quickly but requires the agreement of the rest of the eu. theresa may continuing to not give too much away, she says the way to get the best deal for the uk too much away, she says the way to get the best dealfor the uk is too much away, she says the way to get the best deal for the uk is to keep some of that under wraps. that is frustrating some, they want more a nswe rs , is frustrating some, they want more answers, speculation, words by the likes of liam fox who has suggested that maybe the uk could stay partly in the customs union, talk from other cabinet ministers about some kind of transitional arrangement. labour leaderjeremy corbyn said he wa nted a nswers. labour leaderjeremy corbyn said he wanted answers. can she tell us when
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the house will receive the governments were article 50? how long we'll be given to scrutinise that plan? can she tell us how long the british government margins the whole process will take ? the british government margins the whole process will take? and can tell us of the british government will be looking for an interim transitional deal with the european union? these are basic questions which have not been answered almost six months after we voted to leave the european union. jeremy corbyn accused theresa may are presiding over a shambolic government and said there were mixed messages coming from a very many of her cabinet ministers. theresa may interestingly was asked about whether she thought the uk might continue to pay into the uk might continue to pay into the eu once they have left, she did not rule it out but we are in the circumstances where she is keeping all her options open before she goes into those talks. thank you very much. the latest on the brexit
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exchanges at westminster today. the headlines on bbc news: the russian ambassador to turkey has been shot by a gunman whilst visiting a photograph gallery in the turkish capital. unconfirmed reports that he may have lost his life. thousands escape east aleppo as evacuations from the syrian city continue — including nearly 50 orphans who‘ve been brought to safety after being trapped for months. and in the sport, india score a record—breaking test score of 759 declared against england including a triple century for cameron —— karen fifa had find the whole nations for
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displaying the poppies during the world cup qualifiers last month. and the 2017 bobsleigher dan skelton world championships will be held in germany after saatchi was stripped of the rights to stage it after allegations of russian state sponsored doping. —— in the last half an hour or so a motion of no confidence in the stormont first minister arlene foster, following a controversial energy scheme that she had been responsible for in the past. let‘s get right up to speed with what is going on and join our correspondent in stormont, give us the result and tell us
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whether arlene foster is still in a job or not? on one level most assembly members who voted in the vote of no—confidence did not vote in favour of arlene foster, 39 members voted for the no—confidence motion and 36 against, but arlene foster stays in post and the motion has failed because of the complex voting procedure is used here under the power—sharing arrangements. there has to be a majority of unionists and nationalists in favour of any no—confidence motion for any to pass. given that her party the dup are the majority unionist party and they of course voted in her favour, the majority of unionists voted against the no—confidence motion therefore it fails. however a rift has opened up today between the dup and sinn fein, their partners in government. the day started with a walk—out, martin mcguinness the
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deputy first minister of sinn fein said he did not authorise arlene foster to give a statement here in her capacity as first minister. the deputy first minister and the first minister legally have equal powers and are not supposed to act in isolation of one another. that means the first minister‘s statement is not valid and walked out. martin mcguinness gave an interview in which he appeared to indicate he was still committed to the power—sharing relationship, he said arlene foster should step aside for a number of weeks whilst thejudge should step aside for a number of weeks whilst the judge led investigation took place into the green energy scheme which is at the centre of this controversy. it was called the renewable heat incentive and designed to get people to use environmentally friendly fuels but it overspent to the tune of £400 million. martin mcguinness said he was giving friendly advice saying she should step down and not giving an order. she thank you for the update.
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now to bring you up—to—date with the events in turkey because we have been reporting that gun attack in ankara and the fact that the russian ambassador to turkey has been at least badly injured, some unconfirmed reports that he may have been killed but we cannot confirm that as yet. what we do have are some images of the gunman taken shortly after the shooting in which he is still armed. those are the images i will show you now. as we we re images i will show you now. as we were saying, dressed in a suit and tie and according to some reports shouting allah akbar. reports that
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the gunman himself has been killed, or neutralised in their words. we are getting more statements now that these images are coming in, a spokesman for the russian foreign ministry saying that in the past few minutes, confirming that ambassador or andrei karlov has died of his wounds. this seems to be official confirmation that this gunman, whoever he is, is being held responsible for killing, for murdering the russian ambassador to turkey, andrei karlov. this has happened in the past hour or so. security is being stepped up around the turkish embassy in istanbul and the turkish embassy in istanbul and the consulate and istanbul and the embassy in ankara. the russian
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authorities in moscow are yet to make an official response other than this foreign ministry statement confirming that the ambassador has been shot. to give you more sense of what people are saying about the ambassador‘s killing, the mayor of ankara says that in his view the attack has been deliberately engineered to ruin the relationship between turkey and russia. that is his reading of it. and a few more words coming in from the russian foreign ministry, saying they will be making another statement in a short while but for this moment they are confirming, they are confirming the death of the russian ambassador to turkey after this shooting at a
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photo gallery, he was attending an event they are. this is an official statement now from the russian foreign ministry, the reports were unconfirmed but this report is now confirmed and the ambassador has been murdered in this attack, ambassador andrei karlov. the other aspect of the story is we have had a response from theresa may about the attack, expressing deep concern about what has happened and from the white house where the obama administration have forcefully condemned the attack but they were doing that before they knew the ambassador had in fact lost his life although he was very seriously injured. any more we will bring to you right away but that‘s the news just coming in, from the russian foreign ministry about the shooting in ankara. let‘s get the other news. a spokesman for the international monetary fund says its executive board is to meet after its managing director christine lagarde was found guilty in a french court case.
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she was convicted of negligence for her role in a contentious arbitration award to a businessman in 2008 when she was france‘s finance minister. but she‘s has been spared punishment and a criminal record. our correspondent gary o‘donoghue is at the imf headquarters in washington. tell us more about what has happened and the response to it? the imf board we understand is meeting around now, it‘s a scheduled meeting, they are meant to be discussing the finances of suriname but clearly the major sheamus' theme —— the major issue on the agenda will be christine lagarde. —— the major issue on the agenda will be christine lagardelj —— the major issue on the agenda will be christine lagarde. i think the fact that she has escaped any particular punishment, either a jail sentence which was an option or a
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substantial fine, we‘ll help them if they want to hang onto power which they want to hang onto power which they clearly do. bear in mind, she was not reappointed to a second term —— she was reappointed to a second term just earlier this year. she is due to be here until 2021. we may getan on due to be here until 2021. we may get an on camera statement later on but i‘m expecting some supportive words, particularly now that the french government itself has said they believe she can carry on in the role. one more thought ifi may christine lagarde and her status internationally, do you think fundamentally whatever happens in the outcome of these deliberations there is a reputational issues here which clearly needs to be addressed? i think that‘s right, in a sense the
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imf stands for probity, financial rectitude, honesty, fair dealing, straightforwardness, economic virtues the world over. that‘s what it goes around the world telling people. i think the damage to her reputation will be there because of this being a financial matter that she was convicted of, and there are some big issues on the horizon for the imf that she will have to steer it through, not least a new administration here in washington and other issues around the greek economy and finance in there. there are some big challenges but she has are some big challenges but she has a high reputation and i don‘t think the imf wants to lose another managing director. bearing in mind they lost the last one, dominique strauss—kahn, to a scandal in 2011. i think they will do their best to hold onto this one. let‘s return now to the syria and the evacuation in
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eastern aleppo. turkey‘s foreign minister has said that 4,500 civilians had left the area since midnight, bringing the number of evacuees to 12,000. although many thousands, possibly tens of thousands, are still trapped. last week we heard from haid haid, a syrian academic working for the chatham house think tank here in the uk. he told us about his sister who was trapped in eastern aleppo. his sister is among those evacuated and hejoins me now. tell us a little about what happened, and your family connection. my sister was trapped inside the besieged area of aleppo for almost ten days now, and we were waiting for them to evacuate the area. it didn‘t happen until this morning. the last few days were quite difficult. there was some uncertainty as to whether this deal
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would go through or not. the conditions there were quite tough. they had been waiting almost 20 hours. outside it was freezing, dark, and they were not sure whether they would make it out or not because it was their last chance, basically. luckily they were able to leave but many others are still there, thousands of civilians. so far, at least three people have been reported dead while waiting to be evacuated. so the situation is quite dire there. where were they taken to when they were brought out? what are their circumstances now? basically, most of the people are taken from where they are besieged to be dropped off at a location that is outside the area controlled by the regime, in the countryside of aleppo. from there, people are making their own tracks of where to
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go. some have relatives in the countryside. others might have other people they know. each person is making their own decision on where to go. people are trying to help but the situation is quite bad because you have thousands of people and the capacity of the small charities who are trying to help is quite limited. we need to do more in order to provide those people with wet conditions. although they are leaving that besieged area, the situation where they are heading to is still not safe. there is daily bombarding that is still ongoing by the syrian regime and by russia. and there are those still inside aleppo who decided not to leave. it‘s still unclear. we need to guarantee the safety of those who chose to stay. speaking of numbers, i know it‘s difficult, but the turkish deputy prime minister last week gave a number, thinking there were 80,000,
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maybe 100,000 people, who should be brought out. do we have any sense of the numbers involved today? not really. the numbers are between 50000 and 100,000. the problem is that the situation is badly damaged and there is no access to people, so we can‘t learn how may people are there, and the people not willing and willing to leave. that‘s why we are only dealing with a small percentage of the people who are actively waiting outside for hours to be able to leave. at a later stage we need to do more to and knock on doors to see if people want to leave, but can‘t physically leave their house because they are sick or injured. so much has to be done to guarantee the safety of those still there. a final thought, guarantee the safety of those still there. a finalthought, i'm guarantee the safety of those still there. a final thought, i'm sure viewers will want me to ask you, is it still possible for you to contact your sister and family, and are you
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getting regular reports from them? what will they do in the next couple of weeks? after she left, i was able to speak to my sister, right before icame to speak to my sister, right before i came here. she‘s still trying to process what happened because she was forced to leave her place. the problem is, so far we have been trying to deal with what has been happening, and we haven‘t really thought about what will happen in the future, it‘s still difficult to predict, especially the situation where my family still lives right now, it‘s on the stable. the regime recently targeted hospitals, markets and schools there. —— it‘s still unstable. there is no sense of normal life where they live right now and that‘s why it‘s difficult to discuss what will happen in the future. it's good to talk to you, thank you for coming in and telling us thank you for coming in and telling us what‘s been going on. a quick update now on what is going on in
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turkey. i‘ve been sent another statement, this is from the russian foreign ministry. we had a headline earlier, but they are now saying, and this is the official statement, the russian ambassador to turkey, andrei karlov, was wounded at a public event, and subsequently died. we regard what happened as an act of terrorism. we are in contact with turkish officials, from whom we have received assurances that a thorough and commented investigation will be carried out, and the killers will be punished. the russian foreign ministry goes on to say that also today, the issue will be put to members of the un security council. terrorism will not pass. we will fight it resolutely. memories of this outstanding russian diplomat, a man who did so much to counter terrorism in his diplomatic line of
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work, andrei karlov, will remain in our hearts for ever. that‘s the statement from the russian foreign ministry, confirming that the russian ambassador to turkey has been killed, murdered, in this shooting at an art gallery, a photography exhibition, where he was speaking. the russian foreign ministry saying it was an act of terrorism, that they will fight resolutely. that‘s the latest we have on that. we will have a look at some of the headlines later on, but now we‘ll catch up with the day ‘s sports news. england‘s cricketers have suffered in the sub—continent on day four of the final test against india in chennai. karun nair registered his first test century in the morning and after lunch he passed the 200 mark. england‘s were completely overwhelmed as ka run
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joined a select group of batsmen to pass 300 runs. india declared on 759—7. that‘s a record. england faced five overs today, and then have all day tomorrow to bat. keaton jennings and alastair cook will return with the tourists 12 without loss — 270 runs behind. the fa say they‘ll appeal the decision by fifa to fine them for displaying poppies during last month‘s world cup qualifier against scotland. all four home nations have been fined by football‘s world governing body for marking armistice day. england got the biggest fine of £35,000. scotland and wales were fined £15,500 each and northern ireland, £12,000. team sky boss sir dave brailsford has told a house of commons select committee that a package delivered to them at the 2011 criterium du dauphine contained a decongestant. it is not a banned substance.
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an allegation from the daily mail had put them under pressure to reveal the contents of the package, but they couldn‘t until now, because of an ongoing uk anti—doping investigation. there are always lessons to be learned and i will start with myself. i‘ve looked at myself in the mirrorand myself. i‘ve looked at myself in the mirror and thought about it long and carefully, about how i handled it personally, and i could have done it better. in performance terms we did it pretty well, but on this occasion, the way i managed this, i would start with myself and not look at anybody else. we run a fantastic operation with fantastic people. they are of the highest standards and have great integrity. and quite frankly, they don‘t deserve to have had this shadow cast over them. that‘s all sport for now. i‘ll have more in sportsday at 6:30pm. and we will see tim later. time for
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the headlines. the russian foreign ministry is reporting its ambassador to ankara has been shot dead by a gunman while visiting a photo gallery in the turkish capital. thousands of workers stage a series of strikes, hitting trains, post offices and airlines in the run—up to christmas. evacuations in syria are underway again from east aleppo and government held areas, including nearly 50 orphans brought to safety after being trapped for months. a year ago, david cameron was seven months into a 5—year term as prime minister of a conservative government. donald trump was six months into his campaign for the us presidency, and still seen as a maverick candidate with little chance of success. syria was in turmoil. and then 2016 happened.
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syria remained in turmoil, but the other political realities were turned upside down, and halfway through the year the voters of britain decided to leave the european union. so 2017 is all set to be another defining year, for britain and the rest of the world. let‘s reflect on what‘s happened and what 2017 might hold. the british people have spoken and the answer is, we‘re out. when i came here 17 years ago and i said that i wanted to lead a campaign to get britain to leave the european union, you all laughed at me. well, i have to say, you're not laughing now, are you? and as we leave for the last time, my only wish is continued success for this great country that i love so very much. thank you. applause. following the referendum, we face a time of great national change. and i know, because we're great britain, that we will rise to the challenge.
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as we leave the european union, we will forge a bold, new, positive role for ourselves in the world. we‘re going to build a wall, folks, don‘t worry about that. cheering. who‘s going to pay for the wall? chanting: mexico! who? chanting: mexico! it'sjust awfully good it's just awfully good that somebody with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. because you‘d be injail. booing. i‘ve just received a call from secretary clinton. booing. she congratulated us — it‘s about us — on our victory. with the civilians, our families are all now
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trapped in their buildings. they cannot go, they cannot leave. i can't go anywhere else. there is nowhere else that's safe here in the whole east. some of the compelling images of 2016. with me is claire fox, director of the institute of ideas. thejournalist, broadcaster and author alastair campbell. and bronwen maddox, director of the institute for government, and former foreign editor of the times. thank you all for coming in. i will start by trying to map out what we wa nt to start by trying to map out what we want to discuss in the next ten or 12 minutes. maybe the events in the states, events in the uk, and if we can mention what‘s going on in syria, because that will cast a shadow over 2017, and then talk about where we are in the way we discuss things publicly in the uk.
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starting with bronwyn and britain‘s place in the world after what happened in june. we place in the world after what happened injune. we are still talking today about what the strategy might be. what‘s your perspective on brexit as we head into 2017? and britain's place in the world, it feels smaller than it did. but brexit, this slow motion start to it, i‘m afraid this is how it will go on. i put my money behind a 10—year project. it‘s not like we didn‘t have other things to do in the next ten years. it really is a vast amount of very technical work bya vast amount of very technical work by a lot of people. even when we know the government‘s options and its inclinations, and we do not know those yet, it will soak up a lot of attention and effort. the timescale people keep referring to, and theresa may said today she was confident of starting on time, but is the timescale set out a reasonable one or unrealistic?”
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think it‘s beginning to be unrealistic, certainly in terms of concluding something within two yea rs. concluding something within two years. a concluding something within two yea rs. a lot concluding something within two years. a lot of people in the civil service say they‘re all kinds of things they can do and all sorts of smart work going on, but two years is too tight. then you hear people improvising what they think might happen, but we need some way of continuing with business as usual, for example on the borders, at least until we have longer for a for example on the borders, at least until we have longerfor a deal. thoughts on britain‘s place in the world post brexit, claire? he said we we re world post brexit, claire? he said we were smaller, but i think we were braver. one of the most exciting things about brexit was that people had courage, courage against the recommendations by anybody who was anybody, to not do this. millions of people decided to think about this and make theirown people decided to think about this and make their own decisions and go their own way. i think that's a fantastic step forward for democracy. i think this was a great democratic leap forward. i'm not suggesting that it's all resolved there now and we know what we are
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doing, i get the technocratic problems and where we are heading. but in terms of a sense of moving forward , but in terms of a sense of moving forward, and moving outward, ithink this constant refrain that everybody who voted brexit was a small—minded little englander who wanted to draw up little englander who wanted to draw up the drawbridge or didn't know what they were doing, i think people had a leap of imagination in a way. george osborne said to never take a week in the dark, which has to be the most conservative and boring thing to say to anyone. the british public said, you know what, we will ta ke public said, you know what, we will take the risk and leap into the dark. that was an exciting moment, i think, and we should celebrate it. alistair? once we start taking decisions based on the idea that we don't know what will happen, and we see it positively as a leap into the dark, we are on a dangerous path. one of the reasons i was so opposed to brexit and the debate was so
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awful. what we heard from claire reminds me of michael gove saying this country has had enough of listening to experts. i think we are going into potentially something that would be economically cataclysmic for the uk. you talked about our position in the world. most of the power we now get country is through alliances with other countries. there was none as important to us, i think, is the strength we got as being a member of the european union. i think the american relationship will now become tested with donald trump coming in. russia is now a declining power to some extent, but also very much research and in the world. i think we are making much, much smaller. i think the reason i hated the debate was that everybody was making out whatever we did would be simple. osborne and cameron were saying we can't do this. osborne...
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johnson and michael gove were lying through their teeth about the outcome. we now have select committees poring over different trade agreements that have to be made and it will take years. any attempt that was made during the referendum to try to say that, for it for example, the issue on the irish border and how complicated that is, and the impact on the peace process, that was drowned out by project fear on the one hand and on the other hand, £350 million to the national health service and immigrants are terrible. to what extent immigrants are terrible. to what exte nt d o immigrants are terrible. to what extent do you see the parallels, the brexit parallels, to the us election? claire has a certain reading, but do we accept people simply wanted to kick out at something? orjust simply wanted to kick out at something? or just wanted simply wanted to kick out at something? orjust wanted to change? i think you could take the parallel that far. you could say people wa nted that far. you could say people wanted to change and give the elites running the country a good kicking.
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they wanted to say that things might be working out for the country overall, grand claims about this, whether it was free trade or immigration. you in washington could tell me it was good for the country but it wasn‘t good for me. there was that message. beyond that it becomes ha rd to that message. beyond that it becomes hard to stretch the parallel. except to say that a lot of people, there we re to say that a lot of people, there were lots of different reasons people voted for trump, which became clear when we saw the analysis. it wasn‘t just working white clear when we saw the analysis. it wasn‘tjust working white men, who he was sending much of his message too. lots of affluent people, lots of women. it was quite surprising when you saw who voted for him, and it was for lots of different reasons. it has a bit in common with brexit there, because we saw people voting for a lot of different reasons on both sides. and because of the ever present face—off nigel farage on the other side of the atlantic, i suppose the brexit
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parallel was strengthened? the one thing they have in common is the way the electors on both sides of the atlantic have been treated with utter contempt by the losers. there has been a terrible backlash against stupid, ill informed, and i agree with alistair campbell on this, we don't want to be simplistic about this, but the thing that was fascinating about brexit for me, and with my friends and colleagues in america, was that it wasn't a simplistic debate. it was simplistic as presented by a certain group of people, but when you talk to lots of people, but when you talk to lots of people, millions of people, they would all be going, i don't believe this nonsense from nigel farage, and i don't believe john george osborne either. i will find out for myself. —— and i don't believe george osborne either. they really did find out what they were doing. leaving the eu is something i celebrate, and i don't celebrate the victory of trump, buta i don't celebrate the victory of trump, but a lot of people who voted
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for trump were not just trump, but a lot of people who voted for trump were notjust hapless idiots who were kind of conduct by somebody, they thought about it. if anything there was a contempt from the hillary clinton camp in america that treated america as a demographic. saying that he said these horrible things about women or mexicans, so women will not vote for him. and the hispanic vote was not a blog you could move around as she thought. the electorate is a sophisticated, intelligent, even if they are not educated, thoughtful group of people, who when given a chance, think about it and decide. i'm excited about that possibility. too much contempt from camp political leaders to voters? —— from lydia leaders. —— from political leaders. there was a lot of contempt
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from donald trump, and he also lost the popular vote. he shouldn't be allowed to forget that. he will be very dangerous. and bronwen and claire are right, people vote for their own reasons and to think about it. i'm not saying people are stupid, andl it. i'm not saying people are stupid, and i think with hillary there was a lot of misogyny at play. the democrats saying, you had a black guy, now you will get a woman. that didn't play well in some circles. and don't forget, almost half of americans didn't bother to vote. we have a problem in gauging people in the political process. the other thing that's alarming about the troubled victory, and we got accused of all sorts of things with the new labour so—called spin machine, but donald trump got elected when those who voted for him know that he tells lies, and it didn't bother them one bit. the most alarming thing for me this year is that the oxford english dictionary has chosen post—truth as the word of the year, and fake news is now something we have to to wrestle
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with. it's a threat to democracy. 2017 now, and the kind of public discourse we can expect. given what we have talked about with how people construct it election victories, referendums and presidential elections. what might we do to improve channels of information which people recognise our reliable, or at least trustworthy sources. are we overdoing concern about that or is alistair wright and have we reached a place where we accept phrases like post—truth as being pa rt phrases like post—truth as being part of the landscape? —— or is alistair right? this is the year of fa ke alistair right? this is the year of fake news, but it‘s not like it is a new invention. why are you looking at alistair? it was his so-called. .. what do you do about it? the problem
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is, people might not want to... they might not be as interested as they we re might not be as interested as they were in the past question right in what‘s going on or getting the truth? in getting the truth. they wa nt truth? in getting the truth. they want to have their own views confirmed. they want to pick the views from the world around them, from social media, from the news, so they can pick more than they could in the past, of everything that reinforces their own views. it‘s not like there is no trustworthy news out there, there is quite a lot. i think what the washington post is doing at chipping away at donald trump‘s tax affairs is really impressive. but is whether people really wa nt impressive. but is whether people really want to listen to that in the way they get. even you at the bbc still have a very good reputation globally, but you are now the mainstream media. if somebody wants to dismiss what you say, any of our guests or anything that's on there. i think the worst thing about social discourse... ilike
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i think the worst thing about social discourse... i like the idea of social media, at the start, because i thought it would break down the rupert murdoch and dacre dominance of the uk media, but now we have a situation, because of the way algorithms are used, people are in their bubbles and driven further into it. the discourse that we talk about, most people are not having it and they don't want it. is that fair, claire? luna nobody likes the echo chamber, but i think that explains why so we people got it wrong on the brexit vote and what happened in america. everybody can be accused of, and rightly so, of albany listening to what they want to hear and being prejudiced. fake news is a way of silencing people, because you can say, you‘re just being post—factual. hillary clinton had lots of fact checkers. and there isa had lots of fact checkers. and there is a thing called plurality and principle. it‘s not just
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is a thing called plurality and principle. it‘s notjust facts, you also have to take sides. i think it‘s very important that we don‘t just have it as the fact showing this, and then what do we think about them ? this, and then what do we think about them? she missed, you can be factual, but if you live in the rust belt, what do you actually think about it? there is a truth in the fa ct about it? there is a truth in the fact that the elite were not listening. is nigel farage in the elite? it's the way words are now being used. also with post-factual, that‘s my point. i don‘t want things to just become insults. that‘s my point. i don‘t want things tojust become insults. when that‘s my point. i don‘t want things to just become insults. when you talk about the quality of discourse, for me, the most important thing is, for me, the most important thing is, for example, we go beyond calling each other brexit or our kaempfer remain. we are leaving eu, can we now destructively have a conversation about the future. —— calling each other brexit or remain.
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people want to label other people all the time. the idea that people call people who voted for trump, white supremacists. the language gets heightened. but there are white supremacists. there are, but they are small in number. you can‘t keep on labelling people as misogynist. people are not using these words about all trump supporters though. we‘re out of time. about all trump supporters though. we're out of time. and out of the european union, even though i wish we we re european union, even though i wish we were not. and i will keep saying so. we were not. and i will keep saying so. i can't believe you just said that. we will see if we can regroup in 2017 and if our mood has improved. claire is very enthusiastic. time for the weather. looking pretty stormy later this week and into christmas. in the short term we are still dealing with all this cloud and drizzle and very
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un—christmassy whether that‘s across the bulk of england and wales. it‘s starting to change a little bit now across scotland and northern ireland. the sky is clear in for a fine end to the day, and it will be chilly tonight with frost in a fewer areas. looking at all the mist and drizzle and low grey cloud across much of england and wales. they weather from sitting across the uk and to the south we have mild air and to the south we have mild air and to the north we have colder air. looking at the isobars, hard to miss them. strong wind blowing out in the atlantic, starting to push in weather fronts. that means a change on the way for western scotland and northern ireland, rain on the way. for the rest of england and wales, a little bit of sunshine and all change on wednesday and thursday. russia‘s ambassador to turkey is
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shot dead. more turmoil and confusion for the middle east. andrey karlov was speaking at a public reception when he was shot in the back. at the scene, the gunmen show its support for syria. russia calls it a terrorist attack. we bring you the latest on this story. safe passage from the death and destruction of aleppo — they were bussed from the last rebel enclave — as the un calls for its observers to move in. government villages too... also tonight: a week of industrial action — postal workers are the latest to walk out, adding to the disruption already facing travellers. this is the deepest political regret of my time in this house.

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